Thursday 26 September 2002

Click to subscribe to my ESF feed

Nicholas ‘Aquarion’ Avenell got fed up with the continuing war between RSS 0.9* and 1.0 and 2.0, so he invented the Epistula Syndication Format. ESF.

It isn’t XML. It isn’t RDF. It’s just data. Quick, reliable, and I’m never going to change the spec in such a way as to break the previous version. Ever. Promise. It’s staying that way. Even Shelley could use it :-)

There’s just one problem. It doesn’t have a cool Subscribe button. Like this RSS feed button or this RDF feed button. So I made one: ESF feed button. Now the new format should really take off.

Wait, it looks like we need another one: RSS 2.0 feed button.

Update. I received an email from Dave Winer saying that he would have left a comment on this post but my comments window hadn’t worked for him. With Dave’s permission, I’m quoting his email:

No — please — just use the white on orange XML icon.

In a very short period of time I believe that RSS 2.0 will be accepted everywhere that earlier formats are.

I intended the RSS2 button as a joke (more exactly, a bit of fun), but Dave is concerned that it could be misconstrued:

BTW, it’s probably not a good time for jokes — it looks like peace is breaking out, but it’s fragile. Some people are sure to take cheap shots to try to break it up and a joke could be mistaken for that.

No cheap shot intended.

But wait, there’s more!

Peter Van Dijck asked in a comment:

are *all* XML based feeds supposed to use the XML button, or should they all have a separate button with the name of the format? If option 2, could someone then design a button for XFML? (http://xfml.org)

Interesting question, Peter. I noticed that Phil Ringnalda had added the (blue and white) RDF button to his weblog, presumably to differentiate his RDF feed from his RSS feed (which uses the traditional orange and white XML button). Once I’d created the ESF button for Nicholas Avenell, I made an RSS2 button. However, Dave Winer stated quite definitely that RSS feeds (including RSS 2.0) should use the XML button. Since he hasn’t, as far as I’m aware, objected to Phil’s RDF button, it seems clear that Dave’s concern is that any RSS feed uses the XML button.

In terms of your question, it’s neither option 1 nor option 2 but rather option 3: *all* RSS feeds are supposed to use the XML button and other XML-based feeds can have a separate button with the name of the format.

Could someone then design a button for XFML? Yes, indeed: XFML Feed button.

Permalink

Comments

Well, now. How nice.

And since even I can use the format I suppose even I could even use the image.

Now, let's see -- what is that HTML image tag? These types of things tax my brain, so.

Posted by: Burningbird on 26 September 2002 at 11:06 PM

It depends...
If you use HTML 4.01 or earlier, it's <img>...
If you use XHTML 1.1 or earlier, it's still <img>...
Of course, if you use XHTML 2.0, it will be <object>

;-)

Posted by: Bill Simoni on 26 September 2002 at 11:38 PM

Wow, a cool icon. Vindication at last :-)

*wanders off to edit the spec page*

Posted by: Aquarion on 27 September 2002 at 01:50 AM

Bill, you are such a smart ass for being the daddy of such a cute baby. And stop mucking up Jonathon's comments ;-)

Sometimes we can have a bad, bad week and a very bad morning and end up seeing everything 'down' instead of 'up'. This can warp our perspective and result in missing humor, as I did with Nicholas' statement associated with ESF, and your 'bit of fun'.

I'd send you a local treat in atonement, Jonathon, but Krispy Kremes don't mail well, and I can't fit in one of those little FedEx boxes.

However, I do want equal representation -- can I get a "No RSS supported here" button?

Posted by: Burningbird on 27 September 2002 at 02:00 AM

Comments are working for me now. Bravo!

Posted by: Dave Winer on 27 September 2002 at 12:09 PM

yes, comments weren't working on this post when Bill Simoni had used real tags for img and object. when the > and < were changed to entities, all returned to normal.

Posted by: Anita Rowland on 27 September 2002 at 11:24 PM

Aha! 100 lashes with a wet noodle for Bill (to borrow Bb's standard punishment). Thanks Anita, I fixed Bill's tags but didn't make the connection with Dave's inability to post. You learn something every day -- as long as there are people to teach you.

Posted by: Jonathon Delacour on 27 September 2002 at 11:34 PM

Well, I learned two things:
-think about what the heck you're really doing before you hit 'post'
-Jonathan's up late and on top of the happenings on his weblog,as he corrected my screw-up quite quickly

I'll voluntarily assume the position for my lashes.

No HTML tags were harmed in the making of this comment.

Posted by: Bill Simoni on 28 September 2002 at 12:23 PM

Shelley will call to organize an appointment, Bill. I've authorized her to deliver the lashes on my behalf.

I've switched off HTML in comments -- it's causing me a whole bunch of grief as I try to migrate my blog to MySQL and the new server.

Posted by: Jonathon Delacour on 28 September 2002 at 02:00 PM

And I've been trained by the best -- Happy Tutor.

Posted by: Burningbird on 29 September 2002 at 02:04 PM

I have a question: are *all* XML based feeds supposed to use the XML button, or should they all have a separate button with the name of the format?
If option 2, could someone then design a button for XFML? (http://xfml.org)

Posted by: PeterV on 30 September 2002 at 04:52 AM

Eric Scheid mentions it's "Bloody stupid" to use an "XML" button for an RSS feed. I agree.

What is the reasoning, Dave? There will be many XML-based formats, so why not use an "RSS" button - makes a lot more sense (apart from breaking your current practice)?

Posted by: PeterV on 30 September 2002 at 06:23 PM

Eric Scheid mentions it's "Bloody stupid" to use an "XML" button for an RSS feed. I agree. http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/000438.html

What is the reasoning, Dave? There will be many XML-based formats, so why not use an "RSS" button - makes a lot more sense (apart from breaking your current practice)?

Posted by: PeterV on 30 September 2002 at 06:24 PM

This discussion is now closed. My thanks to everyone who contributed.

© Copyright 2002-2003 Jonathon Delacour